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Hillary's 3Q Refunds Part II: Return To Sender

Zip I'm still in the process of separating out Hillary's 250ish Hsu-connected donors into their respective groups (allegedly swindled investors and suspected straw donors) and collecting the contributions these new donors made in prior quarters.

In my last post, I noted that 24 of the 26 Clinton-supporting donors we already knew about appear to have received only partial or no refunds this quarter (an aggregate discrepancy of roughly $125,000).  It's not too surprising then that the new names on the list also appear to be frequently under-refunded.

Assuming the discrepancies represent donations made to Hillary's Senate campaign (rather than her Presidential campaign), it's still not clear whether she has already or intends to refund those contributions (since those paper filings are not yet available for review).  Either way though, whether she's refunding them from the other committee or whether she's decided to keep those funds, the total Hsu-connected contributions to Hillary the candidate will wind up being far higher than the $850,000 figure she disclosed last month.

Neglecting to refund the Senate-side contributions from Hsu-related donors (if that's the explanation for the discrepancy) could be the product either of heroic brazenness or extreme sloppiness.  And while I won't accuse Clinton of not being brazen, the more I look at the 3rd quarter filing, the more I'm leaning toward extreme sloppiness.

I realized something was seriously askew when I noticed a few California addresses among the refunded donors with New York City ZIP codes.  And vice versa.  With a little help from Google Maps, I ran the ZIP code for each of the nearly 250 refunds issued on 9/14 and found that 118 (47%) were incorrect.  What's more, 66 of the ZIP codes used (27%) didn't even hit the right state.  They're frequently hundreds or even thousands of miles off.

  • Deborah Webster of Huntington Beach? Her refund went to Miami Beach: 2,700 miles off.
  • Stephanie Trinidad of Palo Alto?  Hers went to the Bronx: 2,900 miles off.
  • Charles Lafollette of Manhattan?  Honolulu: 5,000 miles off.

See for yourself.

If this wasn't a last minute clerical error (one which only affected the disclosure filing and not the mailings) and these ZIP codes were actually used as reported, something tells me a lot of these mislabeled refunds (which exceed $215,000) are never finding their way to their addressees.

But back to the issue of whether the under-refunded contributors are actually receiving their full refunds (and we just can't tell because we can't see the Senate-side disclosure yet), I'm leaning ever further toward no.  Whether the inaccurate Clinton estimate of $850,000 came in too low because she's planning on keeping tainted funds that came in through the Senate door or whether sloppiness prevented the campaign from even noticing those funds when sweeping up the Hsu monies, the fact that the campaign's estimate excludes such funds suggests they're not part of any refund plan.

To that point, I heard from a member of the Orange County investor group earlier today who reports on a Clinton refund that came in about 37% light.  Of course it's possible that there's another check on the way, but Hillary claimed on Meet the Press more than three weeks ago that all refunds had been issued.  Mail doesn't take that long (unless it has a bogus ZIP code of course).

The next installment will be a new Clinton grand total, including the actual refunds issued (between $800,000 and $850,000), the $125,000 discrepancy associated with the original 26 known donors, and the yet-to-be-quantified discrepancies that also appear to plague the roster of the 200+ newly unearthed donors.

Any guesses where the wheel stops?  We know it'll be north of $925,000.  If the discrepancy rate remains unchanged, the tally could top $2 million.  Register your pick in the comments.  TPIR rules, but only your most recent guess counts.


This way to previous Hsu coverage.

Update:  A couple updates regarding the ZIP code issue in Part III.

Update:  I've heard back from one of the NYC donors listed in the filing with a bad ZIP code.  While he didn't keep the envelope, the letter enclosed with his refund reflected his correct ZIP code, so it seems likely that this was a foul up contained at the disclosure level.  The campaign ought to file an amended report so the database will be accurate, but hopefully the refunds (while frequently partial) will all reach their addressees.

Handcrafted by Flip on October 16, 2007 |

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Comments

Wow, thats some great work. Too bad the media won't ever bother to look into this. Funny, they will spill gallons of ink over Craigs toe-tapping, investigating every person the guy ever talked too, but won't spend more than a cursory glance at Hillary and her campaign shenanigans, even when she and her husband have a long history of playing fast and loose with the law in this regard. I can picture the NYTimes reporters call going like this: NYTIMES: Hi Hill, did you return that Hsu money? Hill: yeah. NYTIMES: OK, thanks. PS You go girl!

Posted by: Gabriel | Oct 16, 2007 3:53:44 PM

Flip I am finding issues of refunds going to people that don't show up in the FEC database for donations to anyone at all. Could be a spelling error but I am only a small way through and already have 8 or 10 examples. I have also seen refunds larger than the reported donations to the Clinton campaign. I support your sloppiness idea and there are many reasons why. Looking just at the other active dem candidates (eliminating all the pretender vanity campaigns out there) I see for this quarter less than 20 or so total refunds being processed by all of them together. Hillary has 671 line items in this report. She is the only one (that I have found) who has a letter of over contributions for correction from the FEC for past quarters. She has as a guess about 70 to 100 refunds in past quarters versus almost none for the other dems. I saw one refund in the report returning over 6000 bucks to one donor. I don't know yet what impact there will be of money routed through HillPac and other on the side money paths. As the names shake out as to the bundled donors, there is going to be a ripple effect for other places their money went to at federal and state levels. Still money to Starlight fund and Hope fund need to be adjusted for. Gov Rendell in Penn will have some issues also from what I am seeing. I am seeing refunds to what appears to be one member of a family (same last name and city location) but the others not a peep and they have exact matching donor patterns. Sometimes only 1 in 4 or 5 got a refund. Lots of issues here and it will take a while to sort out. The extra returns beyond the tainted 260 seem mostly to fall into the over donated category. Hopefully that will also work as a decision tool for the last of the Hsu related donors in the list. It is likely Hsu kept his donors within the allowed amounts, so over contribution may be grounds to eliminate some donors. We will know that as the data shakes out and the analysis comes together.

Posted by: JustADude | Oct 16, 2007 3:55:11 PM

Wrong Zip coded checks would be undeliverable. And uncashable.

Posted by: greg | Oct 16, 2007 3:55:32 PM

WHEN THIS HSU THING BEGAN,HILLARY SAID SHE WOULD DONATE THE MONIES YO CHARITIES,CLAIMING,NO DOUBT,THAT IT SHOWED HER GENEROUS AND ELEEMOSYNARY NATURE. RIPLEY WOULD BE INTERESTED IN THIS

Posted by: J0hn Calomiris | Oct 16, 2007 4:08:18 PM

Flip, you are amazing. What a stunning set of facts. Brownie

Posted by: Browniexyz | Oct 16, 2007 5:03:29 PM

Do the non-Hsu donations also run 47% incorrect zip codes? Audits are complicated by sloppiness, and the mess can be deliberate.

Posted by: NYC Conservative | Oct 16, 2007 5:07:38 PM

I admire and thank you for doing this good (and clearly needed) work!

Posted by: curtis | Oct 16, 2007 5:08:37 PM

Excellent question, NYCC. Based on a quick spot-check, ZIP errors appear to be significantly less frequent among the refunds issued to non-Hsu-related contributors (closer to 10%).

Posted by: Flip | Oct 16, 2007 5:29:15 PM

Not to worry. I'll bet the Saudis more than make up any difference.

Posted by: M. Simon | Oct 16, 2007 5:33:44 PM

Clarification before I begin the bidding; are we bidding on the amount of the discrepancy between the refunds issued in September and the final Hsu-related donations, or on the final amount of Hsu-related donations?

Posted by: steveegg | Oct 16, 2007 6:22:38 PM

The final amount of Hsu-related donations to Hillary (including both campaign committees and HillPAC).

Posted by: Flip | Oct 16, 2007 7:32:16 PM

Very impressive work on your part. It is somewhat frustrating, however, that this story will not get coverage it should. Thank you for your time.

Posted by: The Outlander | Oct 16, 2007 8:38:30 PM

$2.5 million (if you need it any closer than the $100K mark, just holler).

Posted by: steveegg | Oct 16, 2007 9:17:48 PM

Regarding bogus zipcodes... I watch Numbers (ha!), there is probably some statistical analysis that would show that a number of the zipcodes are deliberately wrong, others are typos. Of the 10% that are incorrect for non-Hsu donors, how many are off by a single digit? Typos. Hsu donors? How many are random zipcodes? Obsfucation. A lot of digging - no doubt. But think of the possibilities... Rob

Posted by: Rob | Oct 17, 2007 2:06:18 AM

Curious data in there. Some of them are really screwed up. I looked at some at random. A 9/14 fellow in Spring Texas has a Charlotte VT zipcode. I confirmed by looking in whitepages.com he does live in Spring Texas. One wonders what happens to a check sent to Vermont meant for Texas? I scrolled down and saw Charlotte VT donor with Daly City, CA zip.. One other curiosity. Why is it the 9/14 folks get 2 checks for $2300 and others (many) will get a single check for $4600?

Posted by: Rob | Oct 17, 2007 2:56:38 AM

Clinton will get the money back when the envelopes are returned to sender. Then they will keep the money with the excuse that they tried their best.

Posted by: davod | Oct 17, 2007 8:39:47 AM

Since I've found a number of these 9/14ers to be real people (look up in whitepages.com for instance), shouldn't be too difficult for an enterprising reporter to call a few of them and ask if they received their refunds. I suspect the Treason Times may not be interested but perhaps the Washington Times?

Posted by: Rob | Oct 17, 2007 9:36:10 AM

One of the items I observed in looking at the list of donor refunds is that all of the refunds were for contributions prior to June 30, 2007. It seems peculiar that none of Hsu's straw donors or bundlees made any contributions after June 30, 2007. Until the Wall Street Journal broke the Hsu scam in August, Hsu was going strong with his game. How did the Hillary campaign handle those donations?

Posted by: Larry | Oct 17, 2007 10:23:33 AM

Need to try and get this on Fark.com then you get international coverage:)

Posted by: tv2112 | Oct 17, 2007 11:01:23 AM

Wrong zip code with correct address will be RTS, Return to Sender. The post office does not take the time to look up the correct zip code and manually fix and re-route. I am a postal worker.

Posted by: Terri | Oct 17, 2007 11:03:19 AM

Flip: What is the game? Does she legally get to keep and use this money if she attmpts to return it (and can prove so) and the real owner cannot be located? If that is the case it is a big scam.

Posted by: Terri | Oct 17, 2007 11:06:46 AM

I'm not sure where the FEC would come down on that. I suspect that in order to keep it, the campaign would have to claim a good faith or "best effort" attempt to return the cash. I e-mailed them today to let them know about the bad ZIP codes, so hopefully their best efforts will include a second attempt to return any refunds that bounce back.

Posted by: Flip | Oct 17, 2007 10:43:29 PM

I have visions of someone in charge of this database doing some sort of tweak on the zip code field to set the numbers off just enough to cause this problem. How convenient. If all it takes is one lame attempt and then they get to keep the money that is pretty easy work for a real good ROI.

Posted by: Terri | Oct 17, 2007 11:07:49 PM

That's definitely a possibility. But so is garden variety sloppiness (e.g. someone does a sort on a spreadsheet without all the columns selected and suddenly everything gets jumbled). What we have to determine first is whether the errors made it on to the mailing labels, not just the file uploaded to the FEC. I hope to have an answer to that shortly.

Posted by: Flip | Oct 17, 2007 11:30:17 PM

I wonder if any of them have nine digit zips that end up deliverable to somebody's P.O. Boxes. Whose?

Posted by: Chuck | Oct 18, 2007 4:08:03 AM

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